-
Website
http://blogs.eagletribune.com/mvsports -
Original page
http://blogs.eagletribune.com/mvsports/2009/01/28/hey-astros-in-the-words-of-john-sebastian-welcome-back-welcome-back-welcome-back-longos-latest-fantastic-four-is-up-time-to-vent-on-the-granite-state-again-you-wanted-nh-hoop-talk-y/ -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
Pinkerton is big and if they dictate tempo, they can be a handful.
But I am not jumping on their bandwagon til they win a big one.
Which as you point out, can't really happen til the second round of the state tourney. New Hampshire Class L qualifying is a joke.
HOWEVER Hector, you are still bashing a decent Dracut team.
Did you peek at the Dracut at Central box score from last night?
Central by 2 at half and by 6 at after three quarters. Dracut gave them fits. I would argue that Dracut takes a best of three against any MVC team except Central or Andover. Dracut had a crummy XMas tourney draw in the Lowell High Xmas tourney which also included Westford and Acton Boxboro.
I agree- Great job on the detail. I also agree w/Fib- That's a good Dracut team you're not sold on. I'd take them in a matchup over Pelham every day of the week, and I think Pelham's pretty good. Speaking of Pelham, I know you love them but I think it's interesting that you give them credit for "stepping up and playing the big boys" and yet Greater Lawrence and NA still get the GL Christmas Tourney held against them. Not that I think NA or GL belongs in the top 4- Far from it(Mine would be CC, Andover, Pink, Salem). But I just looked on the MIAA and NHIAA websites: NA has an enrollment of 1175 and has lost to Methuen (1866), Lawrence (2507), and Pinkerton (3329?!?!?!?). GL (1498) has lost to Salem (2257), Methuen and NA. Pelham's at 693, and has lost to A-B (1683), L-S (1408), and Portsmouth (1084). It looks very comparable and to me like all three have stepped up and taken what few lumps they have against significantly bigger schools. More than anything, I guess it shows just how strong the GL Chistmas tourney is, as NA and GL went 1-5 in the tourney (0-4 if you don't count their game with each other) and are a combined 19-2 outside of it.
OK, enough statistics. What are your thoughts on coach of the year in the area? I'd have a few in the running, with the end of the season eventually dictating my winner:
Coach Trovato: Haverhill's come a long way in a couple years. They play HARD and the pride is back. It's a fun group of kids to watch play, and Trovato should get some credit for the change. Even with a tough loss last night, when they get everyone back healthy, they have a chance to sneak into the tourney and be a very scary first round match-up.
Coach McViegh: NA had no returning starters, no returning experience, not particularly athletic or skilled. I'm astonished at their record and the way they've improved since Christmas, and they've had two convincing wins in the past week. No one guy sticks out, but they all play hard and McViegh is getting the most out of what they have. Like you, I saw them at the tourney and thought they were in for a LONG year. Definitely the area's most surprising team so far.
Coach Nault: Completely different challenges than the first two coaches. I know the "coach of the year" thing is usually for surprising teams, but coaching a great team can be hard, too. Yes, Central's incredibly talented and would win a ton of games regardless of the coach. But he manages the ego's well, they all put team first, they play hard every night, he gets a lot out of his bench guys, and the one time they were knocked around against the FL team, they never quit and almost pulled off a shocking comeback. So many expectations to live up to and a target on their back every night, but they're still in the drivers seat for a second straight MA title. Nault deserves a lot of credit.
Others who have done a nice job: Coach Kress (his offenses are always so high powered, and they look to be headed for a Class I championship), Coach Barden (getting a lot out of his shooters w/out having any size) and Coach Faz (I think he gets overlooked b/c they're always so well coached and play so hard that it gets taken for granted). Looking forward to the stretch run of the regular season and even more to the tournaments. Thanks for all the bonus coverage and blogging, HL. We always know where you stand and it generates some great discussion! Oh, and don't forget the all-floorburn team- Looking forward to seeing your choices for that.
Say it ain't so, blue blood. Say it ain't so.
This corner had no idea the folks up in Concord decided that only the semis and finals should be played in Durham.
The quarterfinals will be played with a home court advantage, hmmm.
I love the UNH thing, I think it will take away from the tourney, but I guess we'll see how the new format works.
As for the B-Devs, we'll see Friday night. I watched the early problems, the Christmas tourney machinations, this Salem group can show me something at Londonderry.
As for the two-time champ thing, I'll just say this: Steven Savage, Kevin Sledge and Shawn Stoodley aren't walking through that door big fella. Time for this group to prove itself.
HL
Nice work on the Coach of the Year fodder. Right now, if I had to pick one and again it's early, I'd lean to Mike McVeigh.
Right now, NA has beaten the two monsters in the CAL small, something Wilmington or Masco couldn't accomplish. The Knights are in charge for the league title, basically needing just a split with Wilmington to take it outright.
That's mighty impressive for a team that returned 0 starters and approximately 7 points a game from last year.
Others of note: Don't sell Jimmy Zorbas short at Londonderry, holding his club together with mucilage glue the first month as they were ravaged by the injury bug. ... Kress deserves merit for the program he's built, not just this year but for the last decade at Pelham. ... Remember, this is a tiny town, one of the smallest in Class I, that lost either its 1 or at least 1A player in Marsden to CC. Yet they win 15 or more every year. ... Nault will have to wait to earn his accolades. He gets his with trophies in March. Sorry, it's the nature of the beast when coaching a powerhouse like CC. ... Mike Rowinski, at G'town, Dan Habib, with the Reggies, Joe Casey at NR, all deserve some credit. And don't forget the strides that Paul Cardone is making at Timberlane and Bob Ficker has taken at Sanborn.
Great points on the playoff system and regular season in NH. We have spoke on this topic a few times. Every coach I have spoken with does not like the current format. NH use to do the division format playing rivals home and away, they stopped, don't know why? They use to take the top 12 with the top 4 getting a buy, they stopped, I don't understand the logic of letting a team with 5 wins get into the tourny? These are some aspects that need change for the games to be better. I know most of my arguement pertains to baseball, but you are right about the basketball regular season need to make it interesting.
DK
RE Methuen... How about Barden. They have lost twice to Andover and once to Central. But they win the games they should win.
We will know more about Andover next week after they host Central and Lowell. But I agree with Granitom - if you had to bet the house on Pelham at Andover, who do you take? Rhetorical question.
Mike McVeigh is the world's classiest human. His teams are classy and well prepared. But the CAC is arguably the worst league in the Northeast United States. It's no knock on Coach McVeigh. In fact they defied logic with the teams of the past few years.
But the odds are against you if you don't play iron til the Tourney.
Simpson from Lowell
Rodriguez from Methuen
Nieves from Lawrence
Arnold from Andover
Barbosa from Dracut
New Hampshire, I left Central out of the mix so you would not have that private/recruiting/whatever to fall back on. Who you got?
Polanco/Bramnti?
Roache?
Clarify!
My MVC team, without Central (Marsden/Derosiers and maybe Zenevitch) can beat any team you can compile from any league or state or whatever in Eagle Tribune land.
MVC used to be a joke.
Now, try to beat my team. And my bench wlll be brutal.
PS Simpson and Arnold are banged up but that is what bench is for.
I guess that's why I went to the conclusion that Carson is the best player in area history. Who has an answer for him?
I will say this, no all-mvc type of team can be without Charlie Roche from Haverhill.
Any coach in that league that leaves him off an all-conference ballot is a fool.
You talk about alltime all-floorburn team. He fights harder than any kid I've seen this year. Yes, harder than Bramanti and Conor Arnold at Andover.
Finally, on Pelham:
Maybe they struggled in the Lowell tourney. Maybe it didn't matter. But unlike Salem or Pinkerton, at the lawrence tourney, Pelham has gone into that tournament, against big teams like Lowell and the Prep, and walked away with that title.
Don't sell kress' kids short. It's a mistake.
And if Andover is going to play like it did in Dracut, i'll take Pelham every time, twice on Saturday.
You've got it boiling, Hector--good for you.
I don't get the NH BB thing--I sure as hell get EJ--he's fantastic by any measure--but I don't undrstand why NH teams came up so poorly vs MA teams.
Anyway, I loved the Dracut effort vs CC as the Middies and their terrific young coach Michael Paquette took it right to the Raiders as Georgia Tech's Paul Hewitt sat scratching his head, puzzled, as he watched Carson get out-hustled to rebounds and loose balls for 3 periods ("I came 1500 miles into 4 degree weather for this?"). Take Billy and the freshman and Jimmy Z out of the mix and the Raiders were sleep-walking. The Raiders lose to Lowell by 10 on Fri--after beating them by 39 in December!
Anyway, back to the best player in area history.
My criterion was to be considered the greatest you have had to have great talent AND your team had to achieve great things. I told you about Central's legitimate All-American, Don Tremblay (Chicago herald) and you countered w an additional criterio, i.e., what was theirn post HS career like--was that also great. Your Exhibit A was Methuen's Gary McClain, a great leader eleader on an NCAA champ (Villanove). No question--under the HL rules, he, right at the top. And now, using those same rules, I've got another candidate.
Central's Jimmy Lewis was probably the area's first great HS basketball player--his 1950 team were NE Catholic champs and, I believe, finalists in something called the Eastern States Tournamnt where they lost to Tommy Heinson's St Michaels of Uhion City, NJ. (Now , Hector, you and your bloggers have to cut me a little slack on some of these small details--but the big ones are on the money). Anyway, they were heavy favorites to win the Tech Tourney (which was the then name of the Eastern MA tournament--the winner of which played in the New England tournament.) In the semi-finals they were victims of an incredible upset by a strong Quincy team because Central's coach (the legendary Br. Leo Vincent) sat Jimmy for 3 periods because he lost his temper to an official!!!
Jimmy received a gazillion offers and was headed for Vic Bubas (sp?) and Duke when at the last minute he decided on Holy Cross. So to your point--Jimmy captained the 1954 Holy Cross NIT champs--who featured Jim, Togo Palazi and, yup, Tommy Heinson. They beat Sihugo Green and Duquesne in OT w Jimmy scoring 8 of the 12 HC OT points. As I know you know, Hector, the NIT was superior to the NCAA in those days, viz, see Al McGuire and Marquette turning down the NCAA to win the NIT--help me on the year Hector.
Much too long--sorry--but, using your criteria, Hector, I put Jimmy alongside Gary McClain as great HS and College hoopsters and whose teams achieved greatness on both the HS and College leveks--I can't think of anyone else from our area who pulled this off.
You're doing a great job, Hector--I'm even beginning to wonder just what a Pelham/Dracut match up would look like!!!
My NH Team will consist of:
Carson (Windham, nh)
Marsden (pelham, nh)
Hojlo (pelham, nh)
Cassidy (derry, nh)
Kimball (Salem, nh)
with either of the two big guys from pinkerton (proulx, mathieu) off the bench when I decide to go big and go away from my 4 guard set...
No decision fractured the normally rock solid Central community than when Ricky was given the job to follow Dick Licare.
And no coach in history has done a better job silencing his doubters with such great speed.
In a year, Ricky not only won a North title, but he brought all those factions back together again.
Who could doubt his selection?
He's been nothing short of a lightning rod for a Central program that under Licare was steeped in class and tradition.
Pete Paladino hit a grand slam with the choice of Nault. And he did it off a nasty slider that was biting, low and away.
Nault has been unbelievable, off the charts, not only as a coach, but where it matters most, as a person.
I hope I've come across correctly with the amount of esteem and respect I carry for Rick Nault.
HL
He's lost just 8 or 9 games in his 3 years at Central--he's never lost to his bb coaching hero, Faze, or for that matter , Andover, in either varsity or JV coaching--check me on that.
He's assisted the herculean efforts of his beautiful wife in raising his two great little guys who suffer from major medical issues along w his beautiful and healthy little girl.
And that's just the beginning of his story!
Like Teddy Ballgame's last homer or Lincoln's assasination, the number of people who claim they voted for him as Central's coach numbers in the millions!! Truth is, he was a compromise candidate who eked in--he had no big in house champions or advocates--he just had his wife, his character, the huge recommendation of his college coach (Tom Moore of Worcester State, UConn and Quinipiac) as well as that of Steve Kelley and, oh yeah, a terrific record as a jv coach.
He feels that Faze is a great coach, that the MVC is the HS version of the old Big East, and that if you ain't bleedin', you ain't tryin'.
Ass't Dean of Students at Central--he takes the kids who no one else wants because of behavioral or discipline problems and becomes their best friesnds. He's a real backbone of Central Catholic.
Nope, you've nailed him, Hector--he's the best!!
Hector, bet you dinner that Dracut and Westford go to the North Division 2 title game. You obviously have not seen Dracut play.
By all accounts, including from Rougebleu, Dracut had Central panting for three and a half quarters.
The all star thing went in all sorts of directions but all good!
My point was that the MVC is so strong that even if you take Central out of the equation, my MVC group would still be good enough against all other leagues to beat win...
Per Hector, Charlie Roache is on the team too, although let's see how his teams fare vs the big boys in the coming weeks.
I like the NH team that NH Sports Fan put together!
AND, Hector you nailed the deal with Coach Nault -
he is no stiff and has already earned great respect. Yes he has talent but he knows what he is doing with it.
Nault and Faz and Perry earn lots of good ink.
But I love Paul Neal at Lawrence. Anyone else notice how the MVC started clobbering people, finally, after years of disgrace, about when Paul arrived? Even his down teams are dangerous.
Paul has to deal with problems no other coach in the region has.
His kids are his family, and he fights for them on a daily/hourly basis.
And Jim's right. Lawrence's resurgence did something to this league.
I'm mean, there were good teams in the past, the Rigo Nunez/Elinton Rosario group leaps off the page.
And Dave Giribaldi squeezed every ounce he could out of the likes of Pedro Perez, Manny Nunez and alex Hernandez' teams.
But Lawrence is at a whole different level under Neal.
Thanks for chiming in, you give me a reason to bring up the subject of Carson Desrosiers. We're getting word that UConn is now in the mix with the CCHS junior. That's an addition to the dozens of D1s already inquiring. No offer from Calhoun's Huskies yet, but they're now in the game.
Carson, by the way, is from Windham, N.H. His family is a Lawrence family, actually that migrated north. Uncle Gil Desrosiers was a darn good player in his day, I'm told.
And I'm not sure, but I think he might have helped E.J. Perry's Salem squad in the quest for a three-peat.
Now, this is all second-hand stuff, nothing official here, but you bring up an interesting story.
Word is that Carson was headed to Salem High, back in his 8th grade days.
Then, all of a sudden, the new Windham High popped into the horizon. There was talk, before all the construction delays and stuff, that Desrosier's class would not be allowed to stay at Salem without paying. The prospect of playing Class M ball in NH ... love those road trips to places like Mascoma and Hindsdale and New Ipswch ... was not very enticing.
Enter CCHS.
Again, that is a story that the Salem folks tell. It's not from Carson or his family. But someday, we'll get the facts. For now, it's a great thought.
What if Salem had CD to go with the Jones-Kimball-LaRosa led clan? Yikes.
As for Carson being the best ever, if you saw him out in Springfield against a powerhouse from Florida in American Heritage, you would have been mighty impressed, just like i was.
Sorry about the CCHS talk. I've tried to branch out. Look at this blog.
But the people love to talk about the Raiders, love em or hate em.
Finally, the folks in Dracut have my word. I will go to a game and see them before I cast any more aspersions about the team or the town.
I promise.
Hey, where's MKA? Signing day is approaching and I'm still waiting for word on where Grimard is headed.
Is anything official?
If memory serves, Lawrence lost over 50 straight in the mid 70s. Then Coach John Kelleher, Deroisers and Dennis Morin helped them turn it around in 1976 and 77. I think Chet Cousins was on that team too, although I believe he was killed in an industrial accident right after high school.
Dracut is good. Their point guard Barbosa torched Andover for 29.
He is a problem and underrated. This past summer Dracut had Lynn English on the ropes in Hoops for Hope and just missed reaching the Final Four. They were 15-6 last year. Coach Paquette is clever. The school has it going right now athletically.
But don't diss Carson before he finishes growing and filling out.
The best ever from MA and NH was Pat Ewing. And his skill set was not what Carson's is at the same age. But Carson is equal to or better than the Bonner Brothers. And if you have seen the two guys from Tilton who are headed to UConn, well, you know they are not clearly superior to Carson.