DISQUS

ETBlogs MVSports: Please say it ain’t so … Did I just see what I think I just saw???

  • AHugePinkertonFan · 9 months ago
    Aw Hector... I hear your frustration. I have enough trust in you and your ability to be fair that I am sure the refing went the way it went! Two things: there is a funny phenomena that occurs with the art of observation. The observed component always increases initially. For example, if a person buys a red car, all of a sudden that person notices an increase in red cars on the road. But the number really never changed. Do you see what I am saying? Secondly, the expression "shovlin' shi.. against the tide" comes to mind. I don't think the officials care what you or any others think. Part of their training must be blocking out that kind of distraction. Your blog gives pause for us to all examine those people in a position of power. If there is a digression of professionalism the correction will need to begin at the entry level training and education for ref's. You really can't teach an old dog new tricks!!! Sorry for the wordiness...
  • bighec711 · 9 months ago
    Thanks for the lesson in cognitive psychology (at least that's the term by uber-intelligent brother-in-law used to throw in my face all the time).
    i may have crossed the line some. I'm hoping I didn't, but i wouldn't be me, if i didn't write how i felt.
  • Mikandrill · 9 months ago
    It's shame at what went on at LHS last night. It was very obvious to me that these refs were approaching this game from a different angle and I agree that a particular article in Sunday's paper played a role. The sad part is that the people that were effected the most were the kids at LHS. That's where this has gone too far and it needs to stop now. I can only imagine how refs are going to handle the Andover game tonight and the CC game on Friday. It's a sad day when a writer's beef hurts only the kids.
  • bighec711 · 9 months ago
    Mikan,

    Other than my wife, there wasn't an adult in that gym that matters to me.
    Kids matter to me. Kids. That's all. They're innocent, they matter and I thought they suffered unfairly. Still do.
    HL
  • Ken · 9 months ago
    We must remember something that our fathers or a former coach must have taught us at one point (or at least mine did).....officials do not win or lose a game for a team. Come on mikeandrill.....do you really think that the striped shirts read Muldoon's article (which was pretty acurate by the way....it's more than just the technical fouls that a coach gets that Mr. Muldoon was getting at) and said we're not going to take it any longer??? You think they said "we are going to make an example out of Paul Neal and the Lancers"??? No way! Plus, there were three officials. If Lawrence took the time to fill out their official evaluation and recommendation sheet for the MIAA, then at least one of the three officials was recommended by Lawrence....possibly two. That leaves the other official (or two) that came from Somerville's list. I highly doubt that they read Sunday's Tribune article or collaborated with other officials who did read the piece. I wasn't there, but I'm not buying it.
  • bighec711 · 9 months ago
    Ken,

    A fair anf legitimate assessment.
    I'll never understand the three officials thing. It's wrong for high school basketball. it's wrong to change the mechanics for guys who've been two-manning all year long.
    I'm not saying Muldoon's column decided things. The MVC's chasm between coaches and referees has taken on new life around this state this winter.
    Everyone involved is human. The subconscious does strange things.

    HL
  • Mikandrill · 9 months ago
    Ken,

    If you think for 1 second that the person who assigns officials isn't aware of what's been going on in the MVC then you my friend need to get with the program. It is a fact that the person responsible for assigning officials discusses any concerning issues before hand. I'm not going to get into how I know that or why I know that, you just need to trust me when I say that it does happen.

    Unfortunately, like I said this doesn't effect Paul or any other coach it hurts the kids. The fact that you weren't there last night doesn't help your your arguement. 8-0 in fouls for an entire quarter. that says it all.

    Please don't take this as me attacking you, I just firmly believe that this article did play a role last night. My only qusetion to Mike Muldune is why did he feel he needed to put that out now considering that Paul and Dave Fazio have been coaching this way for the past 10 years or so. If his arguement is going to be that it's gotten out of hand lately then he is wrong. There have been many sitautions invloving heated exchanges between players and coaches and many technicals handed out over the past 15 yrs. Why say something now!!!!
  • Disgusted with Writer · 9 months ago
    Hector/Mike,

    You should be ashamed of yourselves for trying to take anything away from Somerville kids for their hard fought win. You failed to mention key facts to make your argument. Let me give you some facts that will help you. Somerville had three key players in foul trouble in the 1st half two with 3 fouls and one with two fouls. (If I remember correctly I think Somerville had more fouls in the 1st half, but I could be wrong). Somerville switched from Man to Man to a zone for the whole second half, and Lawrence sat outside and shot threes. Lawrence stopped pounding the ball inside in the second half and basically shot from deep. You failed to mention that instead of making adjustments your Coach decided to use his timeouts screaming at his kids and the refs (I know because I was sitting right behind the bench). Was the "touch" foul in the backcourt a bad call? ABSOLUTELY! Did one bad call really cost them the game. I say NO. How about a timeout and an adjustment during a 15-2 run. I ask you this did the refs shoot/miss the three foul shots for the Lawrence guard who was fouled during a three point attempt??? In your game recap you didn't even mention the best player on the floor Somerville's #12 who got every rebound in the second half and was an absolute beast the whole game. Or Salvador's 20 points.

    I am a Somerville fan, but I live in this area and read your writing and you lost all credibility with your claims of Lawrence being robbed. You got bullied into this blog by a Coach who should have kept coaching instead of crying!
  • bighec711 · 9 months ago
    Somerville Fan,

    You should be thoroughly proud of your basketball team. Those kids played their tails off on the road, against a Lawrence team that had them staggering at 45-31 in the third.
    Paul Neal didn't cry to me. And he's a tough, tough man, but he didn't bully anyone.
    I mentioned right up front that Lawrence's public enemy No. 1 was Lawrence. First and foremost, they killed themselves, with the 11 for 24.
    The zone had nothing to do with it, although the S'ville coach did a great job of mixing things up.
    When Lawrence lost the big guys inside, who you have to admit were hurting S'ville badly. This game was over.
    Now. i'll stand by my ability to tell what's a foul and what's not and sleep fine at night, when i state that a half-dozen of the 10 calls against Lawrence's bigs, were to say the least, ticky-tack.
    Thanks for chiming in with the Highlander perspective, though. I'm glad you did.
    HL
  • MVCguy · 9 months ago
    Wow- Sounds like quite a game. I'm sorry I missed it, and as a fan of Valley teams, sorry to see Lawrence lost. Somerville's a good team: Just ask Malden (Andover's opponent tonight) who got blown out by S-ville a few weekends ago. And that was before Malden's 6'8" kid was suspended for a year.

    Not being there, I have no idea if the refs "cost" Lawrence a game. I do know that the "foul count" argument is not something that usually swings my opinion either way: It's very possible to have a superbly officiated game with a big discrepancy in the total fouls. Depends on the style of play, the score/situation, and sometimes just the variability of high school athletes. I read that Lawrence went to the line 24 times, which is a lot, and converted only 11. On the other hand, Hector, your passion in conveying it does sway me, mostly because you're not one to focus on this kind of thing. If you felt it, it probably has some merit that it wasn't well officiated. But I don't think it's fair to lump in the almost-beyond-belief unprofesionalism of the Charlestown game a couple years ago, as documented in "The Assist" (which has led to that particular offical being held out of the MA state tourney and now a lawsuit from said official against the assignors) with what might have been a poorly officiated game. There's no doubt in the Charlestown-Andover game that year that there was an official with a specific point to make and bone to pick; Do you really feel like last night was that explicit? I find it hard to believe that the article would have that profound an impact on the officials. I know we all read the paper and it made for some good conversation, but there's nothing in the article that was all that controversial. Same stuff that people in the area have spoken about for some time, and it certainly wasn't news to the officials. I'm not buying the conspiracy angle. Maybe the officials did a poor job, but I have a hard time believing this was an intentional screw job to send a "message" to Coach Neal. Regardless, congrats to the Lancers on their season and looking forwared to watching the young guys keep growing and improving on the court.
  • bighec711 · 9 months ago
    MVCguy,

    Timing is everything. And yeah, the kids come first.
    Somewhen told me today, I accused people of cheating. I did not.
    I saw kids getting the short end repeatedly. Hey, you walk into a casino and there's that board on the roulette table and you notice it has come up "red" 15 straight times?
    It can happen. Sure, it's called coincidence.
    But if you saw the string of calls/breaks/coincidences that happened last night. I'm guessing, the doubt would be there.
    And I kept thinking of that official's words that night three years ago, his disregard for the kids involved just to prove a point. I guess i got carried away.
    MVCfan, you make sense, a lot of it.
    Thanks,

    HL
  • MVCguy · 9 months ago
    I respected you putting it all out there this morning, HL, and I respect you even more for the update after 12 hours of thought. Agree, disagree, whatever- There's no one that can dispute where your heart is. And I'm sure Big Hec Sr. is up there watching and mighty damn proud of that. Thanks.
  • La Neck Rouge · 9 months ago
    Hec,
    I assume your reference to the inner workings of a casino are through hearsay and careful due diligence. As Claude Rains says in "Casablanca"...I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ...
  • Wise man in NH · 9 months ago
    Hecy,

    Was not at the Lawrence game but if red has come up 15 times in a row someone I know has just lost ten times in a row betting on black...
  • Mikandrill · 9 months ago
    Disgusted with Writer ,

    I don't think anyone mentioned that the somerville kids didn't deserve to win. In my opinion, they outcoached and outhustled LHS from beginning to end. My comments were strictly based on how the officiating was towards LHS and how I felt that comments written about Paul a few days earlier hurt his kids. I never said that they were robbed. The truth is your boys deserved to win because they wanted it more.

    Now, I'm not sure wanting it more is going to help you too much Saturday Night. Good luck!! You will need it!!!!!
  • Disgusted with Writer · 9 months ago
    Thank You Mikan they certainly will need all the help they can get. I just thought it was a great hard fought game by both teams and the writer making an issue about the refs seemed to take away from both teams effort. Wasn't trying to rip anyone, just felt that someone comparing this to the C-Town game is out of line. Do I think the Ville got some calls yes. But I also thought that Lawrence got some. And the game was won on defensive adjustments and lack of FT shooting from Lawrence. Great game, great atmosphere, too bad one group of kids had to lose! Good Luck!
  • bighec711 · 9 months ago
    Good job Mikan.
    Although, I give all the credit to the Somerville kids. Man they play hard.
    HL
  • justafan · 9 months ago
    what a joke!!!! LAwrence was robbed hands down.... Now let Central put a 50 pt beating on Sommerville. they deserve it after stealing this one
  • AHugePinkertonFan · 9 months ago
    ... a good friend didn't understand my red car comment that I made earlier. I believe that because we are all watching the officials calls more closely, it might appear there are more "poor" calls. Some spectators are actually looking for the bad calls... This could all be nothing more than pure coincidence. Being a hopeless optimist...
  • bighec711 · 9 months ago
    You are right on again.
    Fans do help infuriate the masses with their whining.
    i understood it perfectly.

    HL
  • NC Blue Sky · 9 months ago
    Hec, I thought the one thing your father taught you was that a guinee walking past a pot of sauce, can't refuse dunking a piece of bread.
  • bighec711 · 9 months ago
    I needed that laugh NC, thanks.
    But Big Hec Sr. would never have appreciated a slur like the "G" word you used.
    For all my fellow Italian-Americans out there, please don't be offended by this redneck from Tar Heel country.
    He was trying to lighten things up only and means no harm. Like this writer, sometimes he just can't help himself.

    HL
  • La Neck Rouge · 9 months ago
    Hec, are you denying that the greatest cinematic line ever delivered was by one Tanner Boyle in the original Bad News Bears ?
  • Jim Arnold · 9 months ago
    Passion is good. I am glad we got your gut reaction.
    Let's hope we are not talking about refs for the rest of the week!
    It was a long night for the local squads, what with Methuen, Lawrence and St John's Prep going down. Good kids and coaches from all three squads.
  • AHugePinkertonFan · 9 months ago
    Hector... you are a classy writer and an even classier human-being! I think the world of you and your love for local athletes. Maybe one day a great kid will go to journalism school because of H.L. Oh Yeah.... "Astro"s all the Way!!!!"
  • Not so disgusted anymore · 9 months ago
    Well you've won me back Hector. I always enjoyed reading your take on things. I don't agree with everything that you said, but I respect the fact that you back up your writing and the fact that you could admit after a cool down period that you might have been a little over the top. I'm sure if I felt my alma mater the beloved Highlanders were robbed then I might act the same way.

    I think the bottom line is it was a great clash of classy-hard working- blue collar kids giving everything they had for the love of the game and their school!

    I too would like to apologize for my pot shots at Coach Neal....I honestly never met the man, but do know his reputation with the young man who was tragically shot. He seems like the perfect person for Lawrence High School.
  • Bokeen88 · 9 months ago
    Let me start by saying I was at Madison Park 3 years ago as a "basketball Junkie", not caring who won the game. There was no way the referee in question had anything to do with Andover's loss. Charletown was by far a better team both with talent and coaching. The Andover coach was flying around on the sideline while the Charlestown coach was very calm and seemed most concerned with the game and not calls going one way or another. The calls I saw went both ways and had no influence on the outcome. It may be the style of the Andover coach and it sounds like other MVC coaches to rant and rave on the sidelines but it is wrong. I applaud the official at Madison Park who put an end to this behavior(at least for one game). Having now read Mr Muldoon's well written column, maybe it's time for the coaches to do a self-assessment. Mr Fazio is an outstanding coach and it looks like he had a great deal of success last night. I wasn't there but I would be willing to bet he worked harder at coaching his kids than "working" the officials and it looks like it paid nice dividends.
  • redstorm · 9 months ago
    I have to comment on this latest post on the topic of the infamous Charletown game. I was there also as a spectator but alos to watch the officials believe it or not. I know all three very well. I was sitting with other officials during the game. This game was a travesty and officiating did effect the game. Could Andover have won the game if the referee in question was not working or did not make some of the crazy, one-sided calls he made? I'm not sure - maybe is the best answer. But I can tell you with certainty - he was out to make a point and hit andover hard. The other two officials knew it and could do nothing about it. And the other two are no slouches and are as above board as they come.

    Just to put it in perspective - the official that caused this craziness had his son with him at the game - he was the Charlestown BALLBOY!!!
  • redstorm · 9 months ago
    And guess who was invited to the end of the year Charlestown basketball banquet? Yup - you guessed it, the official in question in that Charlestown Game. And yes, I believe he attended as well.
  • bighec711 · 9 months ago
    You do make a heck of a point. Charlestown was better that night.
    The official, who made the statement which myself and at least two other people at press row heard then followed through on it, only tarnished the Charlestown effort with the behavior.
    He made what could have been a good game a travesty.
  • Bokeen88 · 9 months ago
    Redstorm, Why would you go to this game to watch the officials. I know I went to watch two highly regarded teams and I wasn't disappointed. It also appears you may have personal thing with this official since you know about his son being there and him attending a banquet. I could be wrong but didn't it mention in the book "The Assist" that he was a former NBA ref. I thought I read that but I may have heard it somewhere else. Those are pretty good credentials but this is really old news to be discussing.
  • redstorm · 9 months ago
    Bokeen88 - I am an official - so i went there, yes to watch the game, but alos to watch the officials. We do that sorta thing, what can I say?

    You weren't disappointed because you got into the theater of it all. It was a travesty - plain and simple.

    Plenty of people who know him (not just officials) and what he is about, know some of the interesting facts of that night.

    As far as his stint in the NBA - from what i have heard through reliable sources - he was a replacement official during a strike.

    It is nothing personal - excpet when you know one of your close friends is offciating the game alongside this guy and he is steaming because in the end, the kids got robbed!